Comments on: The Failure of Offshoring http://www.sowrey.org/2009/04/the-failure-of-offshoring/ A miscellany of know-it-all-isms by Geoff Sowrey Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:59:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Geoff http://www.sowrey.org/2009/04/the-failure-of-offshoring/#comment-6624 Geoff Mon, 18 May 2009 17:09:14 +0000 http://www.sowrey.org/?p=1262#comment-6624 Hey Peter, You've nailed some of the problem -- North America doesn't realise that's it's like anywhere else. They just think it's like North America. As for the rest of it, definitely you need the right people. But sometimes you'll get the wrong people and still need to work with them. Hey Peter,

You’ve nailed some of the problem — North America doesn’t realise that’s it’s like anywhere else. They just think it’s like North America. As for the rest of it, definitely you need the right people. But sometimes you’ll get the wrong people and still need to work with them.

]]> By: Peter Stevens http://www.sowrey.org/2009/04/the-failure-of-offshoring/#comment-6620 Peter Stevens Sun, 17 May 2009 22:14:32 +0000 http://www.sowrey.org/?p=1262#comment-6620 Hello to all. I've been working as a manager down in CR for about a year or so since the company shipped me here. I came with the notion that my company was making a big mistake by shifting our operations here. Personally, I've been very surprised of the capabilities of the people in this country and how good their education is. Of course it's tough and it's even tougher if you don't have the right people in your team. But then again, I believe it's a shared effort and sometimes North Americans are the ones to blame. Shit flows downhill. Hello to all.
I’ve been working as a manager down in CR for about a year or so since the company shipped me here.
I came with the notion that my company was making a big mistake by shifting our operations here.
Personally, I’ve been very surprised of the capabilities of the people in this country and how good their education is.
Of course it’s tough and it’s even tougher if you don’t have the right people in your team. But then again, I believe it’s a shared effort and sometimes North Americans are the ones to blame.

Shit flows downhill.

]]> By: Geoff http://www.sowrey.org/2009/04/the-failure-of-offshoring/#comment-6587 Geoff Tue, 05 May 2009 22:36:43 +0000 http://www.sowrey.org/?p=1262#comment-6587 Nick, Not sure exactly what you're getting at with your comment. If you're referring to working with Latin American companies, I would offer that you have a decidedly negative view. Offshoring in general is a difficult prospect, regardless of where it's conducted. Nick,

Not sure exactly what you’re getting at with your comment. If you’re referring to working with Latin American companies, I would offer that you have a decidedly negative view. Offshoring in general is a difficult prospect, regardless of where it’s conducted.

]]> By: Nick http://www.sowrey.org/2009/04/the-failure-of-offshoring/#comment-6584 Nick Mon, 04 May 2009 13:10:18 +0000 http://www.sowrey.org/?p=1262#comment-6584 Offshoring software development to latinamerica, teaching poledancing to nuns, chess tournaments in crackhouses... Offshoring software development to latinamerica, teaching poledancing to nuns, chess tournaments in crackhouses…

]]> By: Geoff http://www.sowrey.org/2009/04/the-failure-of-offshoring/#comment-6544 Geoff Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:00:00 +0000 http://www.sowrey.org/?p=1262#comment-6544 Hey James, Now that's an interesting issue -- Canucks not diligent with scope and schedule. (I chuckle, and you know damn well why.) I wonder what there is that could be done about that? And I agree with you 100% -- it's always the people who create the variables in the equation. That'll always be the toughest part of any offshore. Hey James,

Now that’s an interesting issue — Canucks not diligent with scope and schedule. (I chuckle, and you know damn well why.) I wonder what there is that could be done about that?

And I agree with you 100% — it’s always the people who create the variables in the equation. That’ll always be the toughest part of any offshore.

]]> By: Geoff http://www.sowrey.org/2009/04/the-failure-of-offshoring/#comment-6543 Geoff Wed, 15 Apr 2009 13:57:55 +0000 http://www.sowrey.org/?p=1262#comment-6543 Hey Tom, I'd say you're one of the lucky few -- an offshore of 1. That means you have only yourself to keep up with. Not to mention the fact that North Americans operating as offshores tend to perform far better, at least from my experience. For example, if you call Adobe Support from Costa Rica, you don't get India -- you get San Jose, CA. And I gotta tell ya -- support from the source is always soooooo good. Hey Tom,

I’d say you’re one of the lucky few — an offshore of 1. That means you have only yourself to keep up with. Not to mention the fact that North Americans operating as offshores tend to perform far better, at least from my experience. For example, if you call Adobe Support from Costa Rica, you don’t get India — you get San Jose, CA. And I gotta tell ya — support from the source is always soooooo good.

]]> By: James Carlson http://www.sowrey.org/2009/04/the-failure-of-offshoring/#comment-6541 James Carlson Wed, 15 Apr 2009 12:18:56 +0000 http://www.sowrey.org/?p=1262#comment-6541 Hey Jeff, Your thoughts mirror much of my experiences in working with international teams and I thought sharing my experiences would provide a different viewpoint. I now work mainly for American firms in various engineering and economics roles in both the US and Canada with exposure to teams and individuals from Asia, South America, UK, and the Middle-Eastern Countries. The overwhelming feedback from management is mostly identical to yours, but with an interesting difference: Canadians are not diligent when it comes to scope and development schedules. It is interesting to compare your experience from the perspective of Canadian management with your US counterparts, and working outside of management I believe I have a unique perspective on these issues. My experience has been all cultures have a different process of triage and will communicate a sense of urgency in completely different manners. The trick (as always) is the people side of the equation, that-is to understand the differences in cultures and communication and to speak the language … just my two cents but I am interested to hear more about how you tackle these issues. James Hey Jeff,

Your thoughts mirror much of my experiences in working with international teams and I thought sharing my experiences would provide a different viewpoint. I now work mainly for American firms in various engineering and economics roles in both the US and Canada with exposure to teams and individuals from Asia, South America, UK, and the Middle-Eastern Countries. The overwhelming feedback from management is mostly identical to yours, but with an interesting difference: Canadians are not diligent when it comes to scope and development schedules. It is interesting to compare your experience from the perspective of Canadian management with your US counterparts, and working outside of management I believe I have a unique perspective on these issues. My experience has been all cultures have a different process of triage and will communicate a sense of urgency in completely different manners. The trick (as always) is the people side of the equation, that-is to understand the differences in cultures and communication and to speak the language … just my two cents but I am interested to hear more about how you tackle these issues.

James

]]> By: Tom http://www.sowrey.org/2009/04/the-failure-of-offshoring/#comment-6540 Tom Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:55:05 +0000 http://www.sowrey.org/?p=1262#comment-6540 Hey Geoff I think a lot depends on the set up and taking advantage of the differences. I'm not that different from you wrt running an 'offshore operation'. I do my QA work in Calgary for a development company in London UK. They are seven hours ahead of me. Occasionally I have to be at work at 2 am Calgary time for a 9 am London time sprint meeting, but that's only once or twice a month. Otherwise, we use the 7 hours to our advantage. You see, I regularly start at 6 am (not that hard to do since the commute is just down the stairs) which is 1 pm London time, so we get about 4 hours of overlap where we can discuss what's going on or any issues that may arise. Then they go home and I have another 4 hours where I can cut releases and hammer the QA servers without any interruption. When the development team gets in the next morning, they have all of my results of the testing the night before and can continue their development in the morning without me interrupting them. We've been doing this now for 2 years and we have at least another years worth of work ahead of us. Of course, my situation is the reverse of what you've experienced in the past with 'offshore'. I'm the one with over 2 years prior experience in the project and the development team were the 'new kids on the block'. So the training wasn't with the offshore group. I would think this would be similar though to your current situation where you are the experienced one on the offshore end, probably even more so than your team at home. Of course that doesn't address the work ethic issues that come with different cultures, but at least CM has someone at arm’s length who understands what needs to be done and is willing to work towards achieving those goals. I look forward to the book coming out :) Hey Geoff
I think a lot depends on the set up and taking advantage of the differences. I’m not that different from you wrt running an ‘offshore operation’. I do my QA work in Calgary for a development company in London UK. They are seven hours ahead of me. Occasionally I have to be at work at 2 am Calgary time for a 9 am London time sprint meeting, but that’s only once or twice a month. Otherwise, we use the 7 hours to our advantage. You see, I regularly start at 6 am (not that hard to do since the commute is just down the stairs) which is 1 pm London time, so we get about 4 hours of overlap where we can discuss what’s going on or any issues that may arise. Then they go home and I have another 4 hours where I can cut releases and hammer the QA servers without any interruption. When the development team gets in the next morning, they have all of my results of the testing the night before and can continue their development in the morning without me interrupting them. We’ve been doing this now for 2 years and we have at least another years worth of work ahead of us.
Of course, my situation is the reverse of what you’ve experienced in the past with ‘offshore’. I’m the one with over 2 years prior experience in the project and the development team were the ‘new kids on the block’. So the training wasn’t with the offshore group. I would think this would be similar though to your current situation where you are the experienced one on the offshore end, probably even more so than your team at home. Of course that doesn’t address the work ethic issues that come with different cultures, but at least CM has someone at arm’s length who understands what needs to be done and is willing to work towards achieving those goals.
I look forward to the book coming out :)

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